अध्याय 7

“If you instruct a rascal, he’ll be angry.” Therefore we go as beggars: “My dear sir, you are a very nice man. I am a sannyāsī beggar, so I want to construct a temple. Can you spare some money?” So he will think, “Oh, here is a beggar. Give him some money.” [They laugh] But if I say, “Dear sir, you have millions of dollars at your disposal. That is Kṛṣṇa’s money. Give it to me. I am Kṛṣṇa’s servant.” Oh, he’ll… [Everyone laughs.] He will not be very satisfied. Rather, if I go as a beggar, he will give me something. And if I tell him the truth, he will not give me a farthing. [They laugh] We convince him as beggars. We are not beggars. We are Kṛṣṇa’s servants. We don’t want anything from anyone. Because we know Kṛṣṇa will provide everything.
Bob: Oh-h…
Śrīla Prabhupāda: This is knowledge. For instance, a child will sometimes take something important, so we have to flatter him. “Oh, you are so nice. Please take these lozenges and give me that paper. It is nothing; it is paper.” And he will say, “Oh, yes. Take. That’s nice.” Two-paise lozenges—very nice and sweet. So we have to do that. Why? Because a man will go to hell by taking Kṛṣṇa’s money. So some way or other, take some money from him and engage him in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Bob: And then he may not go to hell?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. You save him from going to hell.
needs it. Who is not poor? There are so many gentlemen sitting here. Who is not in need of money and food? You are also in need of money. So how do you distinguish poor from rich? Everyone needs it. If that is your definition… If one needs money and food, then everyone needs money and food. So everyone is poor.
Bob: So, but, well—I was thinking in terms of just people who are relatively poor.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Relatively, relatively, maybe. You are more hungry than me. That does not mean you are not hungry or I am not hungry. I do not feel hungry now. That does not mean I do not feel hungry or I am not hungry. For the time being you may not be hungry. But tomorrow you’ll be hungry.
Bob: What I feel is that—somehow these people—that… Everybody around them may be stealing, but they still stand up and don’t steal. These people somehow deserve something good to happen to them.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: But the man who is thinking that he is not stealing is also a thief because he does not know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, whatever he is accepting, he is stealing.
Bob: Is he less of a thief?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: You may not know that I am the proprietor of this wrapper, but if you take it away, are you not stealing?
Bob: But maybe if I know it is yours and I take it, I am a worse thief than if I do not know whose it is. I just think it may be nobody’s, and I take it.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: That is also stealing. Because it must belong to somebody. And you take it without his permission. You may not know exactly who is the proprietor, but you know, “It must belong to someone.” That is knowledge. Sometimes we see on the road so many valuable things left there—government property for repairing roads or some electrical work. A man may think, “Oh, fortunately these things are lying here, so I may take them.” Is it not stealing?
Bob: It is stealing.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not know that this is all government property. He takes it away. That is stealing. And when he is caught, he is arrested, and he is punished. So, similarly, whatever you are collecting—suppose you are drinking a glass of water from the river. Is the river your property?
Bob: No.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Then? It is stealing. You have not created the river. You do not know who is the proprietor. Therefore it is not your property. So, even if you drink a glass of water without knowing to whom it belongs, you are a thief. So you may think, “I am honest,” but actually you are a thief. You must remember Kṛṣṇa. “Oh, Kṛṣṇa, it is Your creation, so kindly allow me to drink.” This is honesty. Therefore a devotee always thinks of Kṛṣṇa. In all activities: “Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa’s.” This is honesty. So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone is a rascal, is a thief, is a rogue, is a robber. These qualifications. Therefore our conclusion is that anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa has no good qualifications. Neither is he honest, nor has he knowledge. Therefore he is a third-class man. Is that correct? What do you think, Girirāja?
Girirāja: [a disciple]: Yes.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: This is not dogmatism. This is a fact. [Some time elapses.] So, you have understood what is knowledge and what is honesty?
Bob: I—in a way. In a way.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: And is there another way? [Bob laughs.] Is there any other way? Defy it! [Bob laughs again. Śrīla Prabhupāda also laughs.] Another way? Girirāja?
Girirāja: No.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Is there an alternative? We do not say anything that can be defied by anyone. That experience we have. Rather, we defy everyone: “Any questions?” Till now, Kṛṣṇa has given us protection. In big, big meetings in big, big countries, after speaking I ask, “Any questions?”
Bob: Now, I have none.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: In London, we had—how many days, lectures in that—what is that? Conway Hall?
A devotee: Twelve days. Conway Hall.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Conway Hall.
A devotee: Twelve days.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. So after every meeting I was asking, “Any questions?”
Bob: Did you get many questions?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Many foolish questions. [Everyone laughs.]
Bob: Let me ask one more question. What is being foolish?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: One having no knowledge is to be considered foolish.
An Indian gentleman: Prabhupāda, I have one personal question. Can I ask?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian gentleman: Some time ago in Calcutta they observed a week—it was named, “Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Week.”
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Mmm. [He gives a quick laugh] This is another foolishness. They are advertising prevention of cruelty, and they are maintaining thousands of slaughterhouses. You see? That is another foolishness.
Indian gentleman: So I wanted just to ask—
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Asking—before you ask, I give you the answer. [All laugh] That is another foolishness. They are regularly cruel to animals, and they are making a society…
Bob: Maybe this is—
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Suppose a gang of thieves has a signboard—“Goodman and Company.” You sometimes find such a signboard.
Śyāmasundara: Our landlord in the San Francisco temple was named Goodman.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: The philosophy is that when an animal is not properly nourished, that is cruelty. Therefore instead of allowing it to starve, better to kill it. That is their theory. Is it not?
Bob: Yes.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: They say, “Oh, it is better to kill him than to give him so much pain.” That theory is coming in communist countries. An old man—grandfather—is suffering, so better to kill him. And there—in Africa there is a class of men who make a festival by killing their great-grandfathers. Is it not? Yes.
Śyāmasundara: They eat them?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. [Śyāmasundara laughs.] Yes?
A devotee: I had an uncle and aunt. They were in the Army. So when they went overseas, they could not take their dog with them. So they said, “The poor dog. He will be so heartbroken not to be with us,” so they put him to sleep—killed him.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: In Gandhi’s life also, he once killed one calf or some cow. It was suffering very much. So Gandhi ordered, “Instead of letting it suffer, just kill it.”
Girirāja: Yesterday you said that the spiritual master may have to suffer due to the sinful activities of his disciples. What do you mean by sinful activities?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Sinful activities means that you promised, “I shall follow the regulative principles.” If you do not follow, that is sinful. That is the promise. Very simple. You break the promise and do nasty things; therefore you are sinful. Is it not?
Girirāja: Yes. [pause] But there are some things that we’re instructed to do…
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hm-m?
Girirāja: There are other things which we’re instructed to do which, even though we try to do, we cannot do perfectly yet.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: How is that? You try to do and cannot do? How is that?
Girirāja: Like chanting attentively. Sometimes we try to, but—
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Well, that is not a fault. Suppose you are trying to do something. Due to your inexperience if you sometimes fail, that is not a fault. You are trying. There is a verse in the Bhāgavatam—hm-m—that if a devotee is trying his best but due to his incapability he sometimes fails, Kṛṣṇa excuses him. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said: